Comments on: From Values to Value

By: mike chitty

mike chitty — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 21:06:17 +0000

try the romantic economist by bronk for a different perspective.

By: Sue Talbot

Sue Talbot — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 20:55:16 +0000

Interesting posts, but to an extent I think the system is precisely the issue!
If I remember my Adam Smith and Marx correctly, the driver of capitalism is the accumulation of profit. Profit is the realisation of surplus value – i.e the difference between the value that human labour (including that embodied in machinery) creates and that which is required for the reproduction of the ability to labour.
As I understand it, much of the current crisis has been driven by secondary markets, effectively betting on predictions of creation of future surplus value in the form of both physical and service commodities.Some people have made obscene amounts of money out of that because, by its nature, capitalism is set up to reward those who own and/ or control wealth and the process of its creation, rather than its real, physical creators – those who sell their (mental/manual labour because they own no other significant /wealth/worth/value-creating instrument.) The corruption is the system!
Like Mike, I’m not against the creation of surplus value. The issue, for me, is the extent to which, this side of the revolution(!), its ownership can be socialised and the form that socialisation of profit and capital takes. It’s clear that, under capitalist relations of production, the state (whether it calls itself Communist, or Democratic) , isn’t good at the holding and creation of common wealth. Nor, generally, (pace Mike) are private businesses. I do think that social enterprise offers possibilities for the creation and common ownership and control of wealth/value. However, I think we should be under no illusions about the competitive pressures that we will face within our own sector,(never mind between sectors!) precisely because we operate within a capitalist economy. And that in an economic downturn these pressures will intensify.

By: Kieran

Kieran — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 14:32:46 +0000

The problem is that corruption of the capitalist system is almost inevitable where rewards are not linked to the creation of value. People will find ways to earn rewards regardless of the effects on value.
Ultimately you are right though that the economic system is not the issue. That debate belongs in another sphere. The question then is how to encourage value creation within the capitalist system.
The key is changing the way people think – the focus should be value not just profit. People in the ’social enterprise sector’ are (or should be!) driven by value, so they could play an important role in changing the perceptions of others.

By: Mike Chitty

Mike Chitty — Tue, 14 Oct 2008 12:50:16 +0000

A thoughtful and conciliatory post. It is not that the capitalist system offers rewards even to those who do not add value. It is the corruption of the capitalist system through complicated financial products and the excessive gambling on share prices that provides unwarranted rewards.
The Fountainhead – by Ayn Rand is epic on this topic!
However I am not pro capitalism per se – just pro enterprise – the creation of value under whatever economic system!